Alexander Mann

Fair and clear

A year ago, Arup used EY for IR35 status determinations. EY ruled me outside IR35, which agreed with independent assessments I had previously paid for. Arup are now using AMS as an agency for off-payroll workers, and relying on the AMS SDS, which seemed flawed from the start and has declared me and many others inside IR35. They use the CEST tool, and entered answers which disagreed with those given to them by my hiring manager. The appeal process is pointless. At best they are acting in a hyper-conservative manner, at worst, AMS are deliberately dishonest. I've agreed in principle to accept a new contract under IR35 and to work via an umbrella, but I may yet change my mind and refuse it, given the possibility that it may suggest to HMRC that I was inside IR35 on previous engagements with the same client (I don't believe I was). I've always done my due diligence and had any proposed client engagement IR35 assessed before agreeing to it. I've deliberately avoided any work that could reasonably be considered inside IR35. This feels feels unfair.

Fair individual process where worker and client were involved - assessment by Alexander mann using CEST

Received an email just before Christmas saying as of April its their chosen umbrella or exiting

Arup used EY as a consultant for the off payroll changes. Back in March 2020 I was deemed to be outside IR35 via the EY process, which agreed with the independent assessment of the contract and working arrangements I had paid for from QDOS before signing the contract.

Blanket ban. Assessments not provided to many (I had to chase mine down). Even though the government have deferred implementation - Nationwide are enforcing IR35 compliance based on principle. Note: NBS have been aware of this same principle (IR35 law) since 2000, yet up until now - have been quite comfortable insisting contractors engage with them via Limited Liability Companies ONLY (when they could have chosen FTCs). So the on-principle argument is totally moot. At the moment, word is that over 1/2 of all contractors in the organisation are due to walk out next week. Not only because of lower pay (the result of being forced to use an umbrella company, and NBS refusing to budge on rates to cover losses), but because most of us are sick of being treated like second class citizens. Even though IR35 may deem many contractors as employees, we are not treated as employees: we get no support from the government as part of any COVID-19 package, and no support whatsoever from Management. Many of us are constantly under immense pressure to deliver, we are stressed and now feel utterly worthless, when more often than not - we are the ones doing the heavy lifting here. I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if there are suicides as a result of all of this. As many other financial and support services have done, NBS could bottom-drawer/overturn their ban on PSCs until the law is implemented in 2021: after all (and yet again) it's not them wearing the risk if a contractor is audited and penalised for being inside: it's the contractor. So, they really have nothing to lose (except the cost of the 5 minutes Alexander Mann put into giving them the shoddy advice they did (that a blanket ban was ok: when many of us down here are most definitely outside)). Next week, Nationwide are also set to announce that no existing contract will be extended, and impose a ban on hiring any new contingent workers. With no change of heart or mind in sight, my colleagues and I would rather be broke for a month or two than work with a gun held to our head..

Allowing contractors to revert to using own PSC or to remain with umbrella company. However, they are reminding that this is only a deferral as HMRC remain committed to introducing the policy next year!

re: RBS. Same. I would appreciate any direction as to where complaints should be made for RBS's scandalous decision (apart from RBS and Alexander Mann)

It is completely unacceptable that RBS, a state-owned bank, is by its actions frustrating the Government's efforts to stabilise the job market at this fragile time. On 18 March, HMRS announced: "Reforms to off-payroll working rules have been delayed by 12 months as part of the government’s Covid-19 economic response package".

Nothing official yet from AMS, but have heard that the decision has been made to revert back to as we are with the blanket ban on PSC's coming back in force in 2021.

RBS/Natwest will continue with it's IR35 plans of blanket PSC bans/umbrella companies, despite the IR35 delay being part of the Government Coronavirus stimulation package

RBS have decided to continue with blanket ban on PSCs and therefore will NOT be rolling back their decision to move all under an umbrella. No reason has been provided as yet.

CEST decision of outside given mid-February. Without warning email arrived this evening changing the decision to inside after 3rd party review

Owned by RBS. RBS forcing a blanket ban on contractors. No individual assessments, not abiding by HMRC advice on blanket bans. Loads of people leaving and they are having issues hiring.

Zurich is ok to work at and colleagues are nice but blanket decision and scaremongering that you won't get anything better elsewhere is rife. I am leaving as no discussion has been offered just permie or umbrella. Unfortunately some of my colleagues are staying which won't help Zurich to change.

Blanket within IR35 given to all. All contractors now rolled off and projects stopped. No answers available for questions asked.

Blanket inside IR35 given, not a transparent process, AMS couldnt give answers to questions asked. All contractors now left.

Had CEST assessment, provided proof of not being a PSC as I have employees but still found to be inside. No complaints about the process (at least it wasn't a blanket ban ) but its like playing with a loaded dice. This was a test case for me so focus is now on moving to work locally to keep expenses down and working direct with clients so I can keep ltd running.

No assessments. Many projects including regulatory. Productivity & morale is zero. A few leaving, some let go. Take it or leave it deal with 25/30% cut to cover all client/agent/peo costs (e.g. fake holidays & restrictive pension payments).

Got an Outside IR35 decision for a fully home based opportunity above market rates. Its a bit early for April Fools but I couldnt wait. My projects went into the rising tide of outsourcing and I bailed out before Christmas with no discussion taking place regarding IR35 status.

All in no debate

No assessment, no SDS. All but 2 contractors on my project leaving including myself

CEST.

Using CEST

Contract moved to India, like many more in one big move. The Indian team - no offence - just did not know what was happening. The IT work was in completely different technology too. The handover was: SQL Server? Whats that? PAYE or Umbrella, nothing else. No assessment tool. Finished up contract and haven't looked back. Hopefully the stress won't get to to many permies and some have already left.

No individual assessment. No conversation with me. Deemed outside IR35.

Advised we would individually assessed yet everyone is inside - pointless & dishonest - these companies should have just said that was the intention last year

The Department has gone back on previous assurances and is handing down a blanket decision based on broad roles. They don't honour the CES Tool, but have not shown their own spreadsheet, or given reasons for this blanket decision. They cannot, or will not answer questions. The resignations are starting; often of the very best colleagues.

Utter shambles! The claim of individual assessments that have been applied in a blanket fashion... everyone told they are inside but also not given option to stay and work inside. They are using as a downsizing exercise of a significant 1100+ Specialist resources! Projects, productivity and society will suffer massively... the exodus has already started!

A fiasco. Take it or leave . Blanket approach. There was a conversion rate with all taxes employers, employees and even agency fees are now paid by the new PAYE worker without any single benefit of a normal employee. Kind of third class citizen. Under new contracts, the loss of net income is more than 50%. No negotiation possible. Unfortunately many of us have schools, mortgages and bills to pay and have no choice. We have to take it until we can find a better offer. All projects to be impacted. PAYE workers to leave gradually until a new offer is secured. The atmosphere is bad.

Company operating blanket PSC ban as a procurement decision. Agency extremely unhelpful. Projects significantly affected, some contractors leaving while others have started looking for new opportunities.

Absolutely appaling communication, lack of any support from the management. Basically given an ultimatum - really disappointing treatment after many years of service... morale complete destroyed.

Pre decided review of the role.

Notionally all contractors, other than those covering maternity, etc. we’re finished at end of December 2019, that rule was being applied creatively though. AMS communicated no PSC’s from end of February but no similar communication from other agencies at the time. The projects that I was working on had been delayed circa 12 months anyway due to business headwinds so no immediate impact there but that doesn’t apply to all projects. Was planning to leave in Feb anyway and had been planning for circa 18 months i.e. healthy war chest, so not feeling that bad about it, might be different in 6 months time ?????

CEST Assessed and effectively blanket decision being inside IR35. Current comms is that day rates are now "assignment rates" with the Employers taxes (NI & Apprenticeship Levy) are being taken out of the day rate. Perm roles offered, I declined. Won't be staying if the rates aren't adjusted for Employer taxes. Large numbers will be leaving, especially the talented ones, which leaves projects at great risk.

Blanket approach. No consultation or attempt to engage. Contractors bear cost of NIC and Levies from previously agreed day rates. No opportunity to renegotiate.

PAYE via umbrella (AMS preferred) only from March. Seems everyone has been classed as 'Inside' with no indicated evidence (as yet) or proof of individual assessments. This will definitely impact projects. I expected this based on the lack of feedback recently.

Blanket ban on PSC's announced today with and a move to PAYE only after a long internal consultation with PWC. I suspect a lot of projects will be affected in the short to mid-term. Thanks for all the fish, and goodbye.

Total shambles - HR teams saying that each contract is assessed individually when in reality it's a blanket approach to put everyone inside IR35... What happened Nationwide, I thought you prided yourself on being able to make you own opinion rather than following the other banks. Declined the inside IR35 option and also the full time role, good luck in your mandatory projects, they're failing by the way. Oops!

Everyone now inside

CEST test completed deemed outside, they then referred to legal team who advised of reputational risk and financial liabilities. They changed decision based on legal advise, therefore not fairly assessing based on CEST. Everyone is inside.

Used CEST tool with contractor and agent and then put a blanket assessment on all. Inside IR35 with choice of PAYE through AMS company Giant or Unbrella from choice of companies. All correspondence done via blanket email from Zurich’s HR and then direct AMS. That email said notice will he provided in Feb and last working day is March. No options and No discussions. Zurich is a great place to work, but has an assumption in this case that everyone will take PAYE and no rate negotiation is allowed.

Blanket move to pay roll. Poorly executed. Assessment biased to outcome they desire.

Pointless exercise completing CEST test as company is taking a blanket approach and deeming everyone inside as they don’t want to take any risk. Numerous contractors are already leaving. Feeling let down as the company has failed to appreciate it has a duty of care to fairly assess contractors which is explicitly outlined in HMRC’s CEST test.

Very risk averse assessments done via CEST deeply flawed.

Role assessment completed just to put you inside IR35 (blanket assessment) and ban psc. time to leave.

supposedly individual assessments have been conducted, but with several hundred contractors all on the same contract it effectively has become a blanket approach. Large swathes already leaving or intending to by end February with both productivity and project delivery already starting to suffer. In don’t think they thought as many would refuse to step inside IR35.

CEST v1 used. Assessment was done in October/November but we were only given the results in late January, being strung along with "we will let you know soon". Incorrect answers were given to many of the questions so I can only assume it was a blanket assessment. An "IR35 team" email is available for disputes/questions but I never received any replies to my emails. Offered perm role (declined) and an alternate outside-IR35 contract but would have taken months to put together and probably would never have materialised (declined). As they didn't even ask for my input on the original assessment and took so long to give us the results, I started making alternate plans immediately. Many contractors are leaving and projects are severely impacted.

No blanket approach fairly open and IR35 compliant. AMS using a standard contract until April then they will replace contracts with IR35-compliant ones. Nationwide is using CEST v2 and roles individually assessed. Most of the roles are inside IR35 but there are outside possibilities also exists.

All are under inside IR35, confirmed.

Sadly led people to believe they had a say on what was going on but now it’s just blanket banning. Umbrella/PAYE routes moving forward with no option to use PSC.

NBS & AMS using their infamous sheep like approach to strategy rather than insight. Department moving to London and hoping to secure top talent with a blanket ban on outside IR35 roles and low salaries for perms... Genius! Unfortunately when the wheels come off NBS won't notice (and AMS won't really mind) - competitors will though that's where the smart money is.

Unfortunately NBS are taking advice from AMS, who are an "Interested Party". The line is over 99% are Inside IR35 and all the rest need to use AMS' Umbrella company.

All existing/new contracts moving inside IR35 from 3rd Feb with no material change in working conditions (are DWP leaving themselves open). Agency say unaware of what's happening - No apparent discussions between parties

Blanket Inside Assessment. No PSC. Perm role offered (declined).

Individually assessed leading, essentially, to a blanket inside IR35 outcome. Service Determination Status delivered via CEST. No evidence of any contractor found outside IR35, as far as I know. Current contracts are generally being paid up in time to ensure all payments are complete before April 6. I understand future contracts are being rewritten to establish an inside IR35 contract. No evidence, yet, of SOW or Outcome based contracts being available for PSC contractors. Some contractors are being courted for perm roles. It's slow going getting answers to questions.

Avoiding determinations and blanket banning PSCs, with either a switch to Umbrella or FTC being offered

Told all contracts will be inside ir35. Either convert or leave

Told that contract would be outside ir35 until March then switch to inside ir35.

Blanket assessment of contracts using CEST in which they deemed the contract inside IR35 but have not answered the questions in line with working practices and have not evidenced their reasoning. Advised future contracts will be inside IR35 and written completely differently to current contracts so basically creating an inside ir35 contract.

All deemed inside with an appeal process - by which they can appeal against their Inside Ir35 contract, and so obviously lose. Options then are to go PAYE or Umbrella. Decision being taken due to very risk adverse postion. No market mitigations being taken. Suspect most contractors will leave.

CEST tool used, feeling pretty concerned about my future in contracting and feel forced into other routes.

Blanket decision to not entertain PSCs after 29Feb2020. Options are to go PAYE or Umbrella. Only few are being offered perm positions.

PSC's not allowed. CEST being the tool of choice for determination and little point countering the assessment as substitution 'will always be rejected if offered'.

All existing contracts terminate as at end of Feb

They were using CEST tool though advising day rate contractors before assessment they would all be assessed inside of IR35, so a pointless exercise really. Suspect they will have to eventually engage with some Ltd company contractors in future though for niche skillsets and experience which their offshort partners can not provide nor be able to permanently recruit for (they were certainly struggling with some technical roles).

It’s positive they are doing a blanket ban but I’m very way about doing the assessment now and being “pushed” into answering certain Qs certain ways so I’ve just taken an in IR35 position after my current contract completes end of Feb. .

As far as I'm aware there are no exceptions. PAYE via an agency or umbrella offered as the only options. Not clear how the (blanket) IR35 situation was assessed.

Very unhappy, on both the decision and the resultant coms issued via the agencies involved. E.g you MUST consider your options All existing contractors MUST have transferred over to their chosen engagement model by 28 February 2020. One can imagine how a contractor of twenty years + has reacted to that language.. and the apparent lack of understanding on how they should communicate wit a legitimate business organisation.

Great place to work but unfortunate that PSCs are seemingly not allowed. Discussions initiated too late. CEST used to determine inside for what looks like all contractors.

Haven’t seen the final terms yet but FTC, umbrella and where met via HMRC test, PSC are all on the table.

Even though it is said that everyone is assessed individually but effectively everyone is inside. That pretty much proves that they have applied blanket.

Contract deemed inside. Appears to be a blanket decision on some critical projects. New contracts have no rate adjustments. Beware: Alexander Mann, abusing their position and in some cases cutting agencies out absorbing their cut and passing on worse terms.

Avoid this business very poor approach to contractors

Desirable contractors are being encouraged to go permanent, or work through an umbrella. Contractors are supposedly being assessed individually, but everyone has been declared inside - at least I know of no exceptions with day rate contractors.

AMS inept - no illustration or contract available.

No clear information on how different payment method works, agents doesn’t have a clue about how the rates are broken down.

Owned by RBS / Natwest. Half of engineers accepting perm roles the rest heading off. Perm roles are all under 100k average is 75 to 85.

No PSC to be engaged, must either move to PAYE via Giant, accept a FTC (if offered) or leave by 14th Feb 2020

Contractors can use ltd until 28/02. After that, either umbrella or leave. Some permanent roles will be created if a contractor want to go permie.

No exceptions - PAYE only after 28/02/20 via an approved umbrella, or terminated.

.

Unfairly suggested that companies were not providing replacements, although there is an "unspoken' rule that Nationwide does not allow this!

Not directly myself but working with RR contractors on RR sites and they have all been told to go through umbrellas from February.

They are running fair assessments across all contractors using CEST tool, but expectation is that most/ all fall within IR35. Proposed outcomes are within IR35 (Umbrella company or FTC paye route)

Blanket inside even though role is defined as outside when using the HMRC tool.

Most contracts are now inside IR35 with very few exceptions